The remaining attachments.

At the bottom a late painting by Brueghel, with a Seitenwehr pictured in the left part of the picture.

Next, a detail from a Nuremberg painting Landsknechts Fleeing Death, ca. 1510.

And a woodcut Peasant's Dance, by Hans Sebald Beham, Nuremberg, 1546-7.


m

For anther good and lively discussion on the authenticity of Katzbalgers, plesase see

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...174#post141174,

posts 113 ff.

m

A Landsknecht Sword and Saber, Dated 1584
 

Close-ups from a painting by Lucas Cranach the Younger, dated 1584, in the Germanisches Nationalmuseum Nuremberg.
The arms and armor are of course depicted in the old traditional style of the 1540's.

As in several other instances of contemporary illustrative sources of period artwork, the artist even considered depicting the characteristic cross and orb mark - plus, near the tip, a typical wavy, serpent-like ornament - on the blade of the saber!!!

Please note that the hilts of both arms are blackened!


Author's photos, 1995.


See also
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...714#post141714


Best,
m

A Katzbalger of characteristic type, the forte of the blade fullered, the bone nodus of the hilt damaged; early 16th c.
Germanisches Nationalmuseum Nurembeg.

m

Michael,

Di you maybe know which saints are engraved on the brass grip plate?

best,

Sorry, Jasper,

I am not familiar with most of the Acts of the Saints.

Best,
m

Wonderful 1533 Painting Depicting Katzbalgers and Two-Handed Swords!
 

This is a painting by Melchior Feselen, Bavaria: The Battle of Alesia, dated 1533 (Bavarian State Gallery Munich), which is hitherto unrecorded in arms armor studies.

For more, please see

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16116


Best,
Michael

Over 42,000 views - WOW!

Thanks a lot for looking, folks!
I will keep updating this thread.

Best,
Michael

Amazing sword incredible workmanship I am suprised the museum doesn't own this one. Very nice! :)



.

Sword from my collection.

Welcome to our forum, Foxbat :)
What a wonderful start; this is a stupendous sword :cool:
Can we see more pictures of it ?
Could you tell us something about it ?

Thank you! Can't really tell much about it besides the fact that it has 36" blade with wolf mark on it, with wonderful balance. The only other picture of it is here, shown with its sister sword.

Hi,

re: the guard
circular tracks (due to mechanical rotation?) can be seen on the flat side of the guard finals.
Can you please post a picture where you can see how these finals are attached to the guard?

Do you maybe have a provenance of this sword, collection, dealer or auctionhouse?

best,

Magnificent. Is the 'sister' also from your collection ?

Oh Jasper, i didn't know that you were posting before me.
I see what you mean; a sharp eye from an experienced collector !
Let us hear from Foxbat.

As far as I can tell the finials and the bars are one piece, together with the block.

The circular grooves could have been made by the tool used to turn the hot iron bar in the process of making, to create the screw-effect on the guard branches.

Yes, they hang together.

I apologize if I kick someone against the sore leg, my personal opinion in all frankness.
some style attributes, especially on the guard and ricasso block, combined with the extreme rarity of this type make me suspect that this is probably a later reproduction.(20thst or 19th century)

Only two authentic swords of this type are known to me;

- one in the Berliner Zeughaus, published by G. Hitl, p.58 waffensammlung Nr.334 and Mueller/koelling/Platow, Europaische Hieb und Stich Waffen p.189 Nr. 96.

- Another one sold by Hermann Historica 19 mai 2001 lot 64

best,

No apology is needed, we are all entitled to our opinions. In addition things like auction records are not 100% reliable, as some of us have discovered. Having this sword in my hands, I rule out 19th or 20th century replica idea. Could it possibly be a very early, perhaps even a period, composite? Yes. My level of expertise does not go that far.

I do not expect it to be a composite from the 16th century. I can say with reasonable certainty that the guard is much later.
it may be of course the case that original parts are used, for example, the blade and/or the grip.
However, the patina, colour and pitting of the blade are almost identical to the other sword, this is highly unusual, Do they come from the same source?

It is difficult to give some kind of (final) opinion merely based on the posted pictures, if you have the opportunity and want to have more certainty, I would advice to submit it to a specialist of the well known auction houses;
Thomas del mar, Bonhams or Hermann Historica. A first impression they can give on the basis of photographs.

best,

Two soil finds from the Netherlands, the katzbalger is 87cm and the sword is 94cm allover.

For an undisputed original piece retaining its sheath and bodkins, please see

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17364

Best,
Michael

A Highly Unusual High-Gothic Seitenwehr (Side Guard), Bavaria, ca. 1425
 

From a fine and important early painting by the Master of the Worcester Carrying of the Cross, active in Bavaria, where I live, ca. 1425.

Best,
Michael

A fine and rare Swiss hand-and-a-half sword with single-edged blade (double-edged for its last third, Schnepf), ca. 1530.
Sold at auction: Tom del Mar, 10 December 2008, lot 122.

Enjoy!


Best,
Michael

One more image.

A late Katzbalger, ca. 1540, with recurved but open 'pretzel' quillons and a flat pommel; at the Higgins Armory Museum, Worcester, Massachusetts.

m

some better pics.
authenticity? don't know, I will check their HAM files for the provenance.

good: is shape of guard, bras finals "riveted" to guard, copper alloy washers used in grip, blade outline.
bad(unusual): is shape of fullers, non-gothic 4 mark, condition of leather grip, shape of pommel.

very bad is that somebody cleaned the blade with heavy sandpaper.

1540 is a bit too late this type came around 1500, this type occurs frequently in the work of Albrecht Duerer.


best,

Thanks a lot, Jasper,

Do you have a close-up of that cypher 4 you mentioned?

Best,
m

Michael, look at the first picture!

more open the guard, the earlier the Katzbalger!
late 15th century, even with a straight guard into the middle of the 16th century with a completely closed guard.

best,
jasper

found that these Katzbalger has been in the collection of the MET!
donated to higgins armory now sold or perhaps part of the weapons acquired by Worcester Art Museum, who can tell?

See the pictures from the metropolitan museum, here the blade looks still beautiful ?
looks like someone has cleaned it too much with the wrong tools for the job and thus destroying evidence and patina.

Indeed, The MET also dates the Katzbalger around 1500.


Details
Accession Number3130
OriginProbably Germany, late 1400s-early 1500s
MaterialsSteel; brass; briar wood
MeasureO.L. 34"; blade L. 28";
blade width at hilt 1 13/16"Weight2 lb. 2 oz

Description

Infantry sword of the so-called Katzbalger type. Double-edged steel blade of hollow ground, flattened octagonal section tapering slightly to bluntly pointed spatulate tip. Ricasso of flattened rectangular section with 3 shallow, wide fullers on each face, becoming pointed & continuing as pair of fullers extending 1/3 of length of rest of blade. These are about 8" in overall length, and pointed at their ends. Pressing toward the tip, the blade becomes flat and lenticular, tapering gently and slightly to the point. One face is marked as noted under "marks". "S"-shaped octagonal section crossguard recurving in plane of blade, with domed, brass capped terminals. Quillon block, terminals of guard, brass caps have deeply incised line decoration. 1-piece briar wood grip of hexagonal section, widening towards pommel. The side faces are accented by cut axial lines at the angles. The grip is insulated at the ends by thin sheets of brass plate. There are no signs of a covering having ever been in place. Steel pommel, hexagonal at base & expanding into flattened mushroom-shape at end which is deeply cut into 3 sections. Where the blade tang passes through the pommel body there is a shallow rectangular cavity that might well have once held a finial both decorative and functional.

Curator's Comments

The swords appear widely in Germanic art of the day, depicted by famous artists such as Hans Baldung, Lukas Cranach and Urs Graf. Tip has been shortened. The cog-like brass mark on the blade is simialr to that which appears on an Italian roncone, of ca. 1510 in the Museo Poldi-Pezzoli (see Boccia and Godoy, p. 149, no. 461; this reference also notes similarly marked halberds given as German and Swiss, in Leningrad, Bern and Rome.) Katzbalger swords appear widely thoughout German art of the first half of the 16th century. Among other sources, see Lukas Cranach's woodcut of a Landsknecht, ca. 1510, at Dresden (Schade, Cranach..). The name is the source of some debate, but it was probably derived from a slang verb (katzbalgen) meaning to tussle ("mix it up"), or fight at close quarters. The open S-shape of the crossguard of our piece suggests an earlier date for the example, perhaps as early as the late 15th century. In its general form and execution it should be compared to that of a dagger given as Swiss (?) from the beginning of the 16th centuiry in the Odescalchi collection, inv. no. 1312. Rather similar hilts are depicted on the Harsdorfer gold and gem scale of 1497 (the footsoldier to the left of the arms as viewed; Gothic and Renaissance Art.., cat. no. 77) and on the St. Sebastian altarpiece by Hans Baldung Grien, 1507 (as worn by the yellow-clad archer in the right foreground of the main panel, ibid., cat. no. 178). The kriegstagesbuch discussed by Dilke and Closs shows rather similar hilts in figs. 5, 8, 9, 12; this work dates from the end of the 15th century, and in 1929 was preserved in the Thuringian State Archives, Weimar.

Bibliography

Claude Blair and Leonid Tarassuk (eds.), The Complete Encyclopedia of Arms and Weapons (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1982), p. 294.
Lionello G. Boccia and Jose-A. Godoy, Museo Poldi Pezzoli, Armeria I (Milan: Bramante Editrice, 1985), p. 149, no. 461.
Nolfi di Carpegna, Le Armi Odescalchi (Rome: DeLuca Editore, 1976), p. 37, cat. no. 210.
Guy F. Laking, A Record of European Armour and Arms.., vol. II (London: G. Bell and Sons. Ltd., 1920), p. 299, fig. 679.
Donald J. LaRocca, "The Renaissance Spirit," in Swords and Hilt Weapons (New York: Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 1989), p. 47.
A.V.B. Norman and C.M. Barne, The Rapier and Small-sword, 1460-1820 (London: Arms and Armour Press, 1980), p. 66, hilt 3.
Werner Schade, Cranach: A Family of master Painters. Transl. Helen Sebba (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1980).
Heribert Seitz, Blankwaffen I (Munich: Klinkhardt und Biermann, 1965), pp. 134, fig. 76, no. 28; fig. 77, no. 34; 135, fig. 77, no. 40; 173; 175, fig. 111.
The Metropolitan Museum of Art, Gothic and Renaissance Art in Nuremberg, 1300-1550 (New York: The Metropolitan Museum of Art, 1986), cat. Nos. 77, 178.
Helene Dilke and Adolf Closs, "Das Kriegstagesbuch eines deutschen Landsknechts und die Wende des 15. Jahrhunderts," ZHWK, n.F. 3(12) (January 1929): 1-11.

Publication & Exhibit History

Photographed while in collection of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, neg. no. 26624

Hello,

a similar hilted sword like in Michael's post (single edged Swiss hand and half sword) was sold in the last Fischer auction (417, lot no. 25).

Regards,
Matus

Thank you so much, Jasper,


I should have also noticed that the pommel cap is of. ca. 1500, as with a Grosses Messer.
That sign on the blade I would not have read for a Gothic numeral 4.

Thank you as well, Matus, for that Fischer item.


Best,
Michael

Still highlighted by the Higgins (during my visit) on September 2012 ... before this museum tragic end :shrug: .

.

Thanks for that reminder, 'Nando!


I knew that part of the Higgins was sold at auction with Tom del Mar but I do not know what had happened. Did they go bankrupt?


Best,
Michl

Sort of ...


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=HIGGINS

Yeah,

That whole year 2013 I spent on hospitalization including 23 surgeries of they heaviest kind. No computer access from October 2012 till mid-November 2013 - of course I missed a lot of information, auctions - and, most of all, I missed the forum!

Best,
Michael

We will put it back ... no worry :cool:

God knows you forumites have already done so - thank you so much, 'Nando! :D :cool:

Best,
Michl

I would like to add this Late-Gothic, 2nd half 15th c. hand-and-a-half sword to this thread as it was still in use as a period companion together with the earliest Katzbalgers.
It was sold Bonhams, 26 November 2008, lot 274.

Best, Michael